In this video podcast, we're taking a lighter look at a topic: Men's Body Dysmorphia & where's their body positivity movement?! A healthy dose of our personal opinions included.

Unrealistic expectations for men can lead to men's body dysmorphia, or a severely distorted view of their own body. Men's body dysmorphia is a serious issue that affects a large number of men, and it can lead to a number of negative consequences. We're discussing the differences between men's body dysmorphia and women's body dysmorphic disorder, what societies expectations are for each, and how testosterone plays a role in these disorders.

Transcript

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Brian Mckinley:  Hey, welcome back. Today, we're gonna be doing a little bit more of a longer form video on body dysmorphia for men. This is Alpha MD and names. Brian. Here with Garrett today.

Garrett Soames: How's it going?

Brian Mckinley: We just kind of want to talk about this moment, you know we don't really have an agenda here but we went we're just talking this past week. I think about how Kind of s***** it is. Honestly, to be a man. And kind of the standard that men are held to, you know, physically like how they're supposed to look. Given like how they look at Hollywood, right? You know, and It seems like it just requires so much more work. for a man nowadays then, you know, and this isn't like hating on women, this is just saying like, For a man you have to build a ton of muscles and be really skinny for a woman generally just be really skinny so like innately there's a little bit of in my mind. A difference in like effort required to meet the Hollywood image.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, no.

Brian Mckinley: Does that make sense?

Garrett Soames: I mean I I think the best way to put it is just like The state the standards for women have always been overly ridiculous, right? You know with model you know almost the point you know anorexia and…

Brian Mckinley:  All right, right.

Garrett Soames: stuff like that. So so women have it just as bad I think as men do but I think for the first time at least probably in all of history you know this is an issue that men also are dealing with,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: right? We Yeah.

Brian Mckinley:  That's a better way to put it. Yeah, that's that's a smarter way to put it.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, it is. It is it's kind of unique now for for men, you know, really of I think pretty much anywhere or at least in any, you know, modernized nation on our planet of this. You know, physical ideal. And it's really, you know, something that since it, since it is. So new men are really grappling with it and they're struggling with it because we haven't really,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, come to terms with what it really means and what's required and what, what do you know, women, you know, desire in a mate as far as like looks and whatnot. And then it's, it also comes at a time which is where there's this body positivity movement with with women. So, like when yeah,…

Brian Mckinley: Right. Yeah,…

Garrett Soames: women are now.

Brian Mckinley: you can see a lot lately, too.

Garrett Soames: Okay. Yeah yeah. So like there's you know women are are with this body positivity movement, they don't have to I think they're they're a lot more comfortable with with no longer having that, you know, ideal body image while at the same time. Uh, you…

Brian Mckinley: We don't have that much just yet.

Brian Mckinley: I feel like

Garrett Soames: Right. Yeah,…

Garrett Soames: men are not like this. Again, a good example is like the dad bod thing, right? Everything that like this is that's a new term…

Brian Mckinley:  yeah.

Garrett Soames: but it is a disparaging term, right? Like this guy,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: he's let himself go. That's a dad bod. Like if we were to say the same thing. That's a mom bod. That would not go over. Well,

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. No. No I guess it's just the way that you say it too. Right. Because like, you know, there are people who like, you know, Older individuals, right? And they have a thing for that but it's not necessarily talking directly like using a term that relates directly to the way that they look right and the term Dad bought. Specifically refers to the way that the guy looks rather than just being like he's a dad and I'm into that he's like No he's a dad bod that's specifically talks about the way that he looks right.

Garrett Soames: Right? It's not talking about him as a man, like, Oh, he's he's supporting his family. He's a good father, it's not, it is You. It is objectifying them in a certain way you know as a specifically by how they look with again certain connotations of. This is a guy who probably used to be fit who. Now has let himself go, it's literally what that means. So it's

Brian Mckinley: Yeah, and no, no guy wants to hear that. No guy wants to hear that.

Garrett Soames:  no.

Brian Mckinley: No, no one's ever like, Hey, you're getting a little bit of a dad bought. Oh thanks.

Garrett Soames: Right. Yeah. Yeah. So again and it's weird because it's coming now at a time where again you know you see plus size models now on television and a magazines and and that was never a thing really before.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: And I I'm all for it, you know. And I'm actually I actually am one of the guys…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: who who likes curvy women you know, so I actually do it.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: I appreciate seeing you know, models of different sizes and stuff and I think so. I'm really excited for women in that regard these days but Yeah.

Brian Mckinley:  You know, that's a good example because like Hollywood and stuff like that, right. You're seeing like, you know, Hollywood is always had a bad track record for like pushing bad views about people, only casting people of certain colors in the past being like, tell a judgmental. But now we are moving in the direction of like, you know, like we need to make sure that we include like a plus size and we need to make sure that we include people with like not perfect traits and like you know it's like that's good that's great and like at the same time that's going on it's usually like in the same movies. Where like the male standard for beauty. Is still. Being portrayed completely stereotypically, right? Like I think a good example was like

Brian Mckinley: Guardians the Galaxy, right? That's a new movie that's coming out and Chris Pratt. He got hella fit the first guardians of the Galaxy and like the director was like, Yeah. Like you're the guy we literally can't cast you unless you let us put six packs on a six-packed out on you with like CGI and he was like, No I can do it.

Garrett Soames:  Right.

Brian Mckinley: You like me enough, I have the motivation and he did six months, he didn't intense stuff. It was crazy. He did great. He came out, looking pretty, damn good, you know? And the thing is, He also didn't look like perfect by Hollywood standards, but he looked pretty damn good, right?

Garrett Soames: Well, and that's you, Chris Pratt's, a good example, right? Because he was what in parks and rec and he was, he was,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: he was by all definitions fat, right? but what's funny is,…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: is You know, guys that are actors that are fat are always cast in the funny role, right?

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah, they're never the main character and if they are it's because it's comical.

Garrett Soames: Right, you're fat hahaha right? It's like,…

Brian Mckinley:  But yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, right? And then you know, Chris Pratt is again a good example, he's lost a lot of weight and stuff now, and now even though,…

Brian Mckinley:  You know.

Garrett Soames: you know, Guardians of the Galaxy still has humor. He's, he's now in like the, you know, the, the male role that, you know, where he's saving, you know, the Galaxy and whatever. And,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, the Jurassic Park movies, like He's, you know, saving the girl and he's not in a humorous role anymore, right? Because he's not bad anymore.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah, and yeah, that's that way. Because it's also like not any yeah.

Garrett Soames: Right, right. Um, you know and so I think it's it's really interesting again how how this works. Like I, you know, you and I grew up in a time where Sylvester Stallone you know an Arnold Schwarzenegger like like these were the.

Brian Mckinley: And they were in the image.

Garrett Soames: Yeah these were the guys we wanted to be so they were big and they were essentially on unobtainably like massively you know, muscular and and whatnot. But at the same time we had like Pierce Brosnan as James Bond,…

Brian Mckinley:  Mm-hmm.

Garrett Soames: right? So he he is,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: he was emasculine guy and he was like he's the man's man, he gets all the women, you know, and he had hair on his chest which was not muscular. He had no six packs. You know or what's his name? Sean Connery. It's another good example like Yeah,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah, Connor. Yeah yeah he just had he had the energy.

Garrett Soames: they have that energy. They were masculine women wanted to be that with them, you know, all men wanted to be them but that if we were to pull that, you know, from that time and drop them in today's time, they'll be like, Who's this, like, Why is he having six pack?

Brian Mckinley: Yeah. No,…

Garrett Soames: He's, you know, this is gross.

Brian Mckinley: dude. Yeah, exactly. Like that was a new another Marvel movie. We're talking about Marvel, let's talk about Marvel again. That was that one? The wakanda forever, right? Where I like that the antihero dude,…

Garrett Soames:  Hmm.

Brian Mckinley: like the big bad villain guy was.

Garrett Soames:  Oh yeah. Now you say care what's the actor's name again? But like that anymore? Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Yeah, I wish I would. Yeah, but that's the thing he got so much s*** for. Like, Who the f*** is that? He got so much s*** for like, I'm sorry, he's ugly. It's like, no, he's like legitimately his body type and his genetics and ethnicity. That is fit as hell. For like the role he's supposed to be in. It was like, what? A fit, normal guy looks like and he got so much. Yeah, about it.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Because what?

Garrett Soames: The Internet just for him apart because he didn't have a six pack.

Brian Mckinley:  And it's like, that's such b*******. because like, You know. the same stuff does happen to women but not not in that kind of aggressively kind of like how dare they way it does happen for like, plus size models and stuff like that, but like you said, people are seeing that in a much more positive light. Now, it's not seen as a bad thing, it. See, it is like a body positivity. Like a, Let's pull everyone up together thing but the second we put on a slightly, You know, not Captain, America vibe and guy it's like Get that guy out of there boycott that movie that's b*******. And so you know it's weird because Men need this too. You know, we're at a time where obesity is like at an all-time high in this country, right? And yet the standard for men is still at an all-time muscular low body fat content.

Garrett Soames: Right. Right.

Brian Mckinley: And like you know, kind of what I'm saying before that, like women like they just need to be a certain size or shape but they don't necessarily need muscles. So it's like they have to lose the weight but men have to lose the weight and then they have to put it on too to reach that standard and that's where I think like the body positivity. Kind of needs to come in and,…

Garrett Soames: With yeah.

Brian Mckinley: you know, toxic masculinity doesn't help either. I, I was working out this morning with my wife, and we're watching video and it was something stupid, like, Yeah. You think your girls safe? Look at all my cars. Secret is she's not safe at all. If I was here, I'd pull her and I'm like, What the hell is this? And it's like, like you're rich off of being an ass and like it's like, Why is this a thing? And Why is that how people think? Like, you got to be buff as hell or rich? That's it. Those are your two options.

Garrett Soames: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because they've done, you know, a lot of studies on what women like desire and find attractive, right? So they Well,…

Brian Mckinley: surprise, it's not that

Garrett Soames: no, what? Yeah, what's interesting is they they pulled a bunch of Romance novels, right? And they.

Brian Mckinley:  okay.

Garrett Soames: So the basically what are the professions of these guys in this romance novels, right? So basically, they were surgeon Lawyer One was like Yeah like entrepreneurial billionaire. You know and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: then yeah the other was like Oh yes athlete so like this so those are like the most common things and then you know it's like okay so you to be a top level athlete, you know. And NFL you think you're you you're literally like zero point zero five percent of the population to be a high end surgeon.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Again that's again like zero point two five percent of the population to be a higher,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, again, maybe 1% of the population or less, you know. And so ultimately it's like That it?

Brian Mckinley:  There's a lot of pressure there.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, there's a lot of pressure on men. Like, okay, what? I All all men you know gay or straight we're looking for a partner right? And so you know the desire I think it the same may be true for gay men,…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: you know, looking for the same, you know, success and and whatnot. But I think we're all looking for that but in men What's what, what is? I think the biggest problem that that men are struggling with now, right? Is The the role for men. And I think this is where all this toxic masculinity is coming from the role of men in masculinity is too twofold,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

Garrett Soames: right? And through all of history, it has been be a protector.

Garrett Soames: And be a provider. Right. Bring bring home the bacon.

Brian Mckinley:  Right. Which doesn't really happen as much in our general society anymore.

Garrett Soames: Right? So

Garrett Soames: That doesn't happen anymore. That we live in a society where we now have to have dual incomes, your spouse. Your partner needs to also work, if you want to to even not even get ahead just to break,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

Garrett Soames: even your spouse, and you both need to work full-time jobs. So

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. And to like immediate income upper middle class life that has to be the case unless you were already born with money.

Garrett Soames: Yes. So unless you were born rich, your wife also will have to work. I am sorry. That is how it is and how it will likely be for the rest of time. Because this is the way the economy is going. So, you now, as a male are no longer the provider, You're now a partner and,…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: you know, you're contribute, which is good, that's the way it should be, but you are no longer the provider.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: So that provider was gone. That's out. So leaves you for your masking identity with Protector.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. Protector.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Right. So The Protector again. Masculine big muscular. I can fight, I can protect you.

Brian Mckinley:  Aggressive. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Aggressive. yeah, and so, that's where I think all this weird toxic masculinity is coming from, it's like, you know, and and you hear it from

Brian Mckinley: I feel a little invalidated in one of the two roles that you're supposed to be in, so you got to kind of overcompensate in the other one.

Garrett Soames: Yeah. Yeah it's totally overcompensation and yeah and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: so like you know, I I make decent money but I my wife still works because again we want to get ahead like we have like that's just the way it is right? And and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: So, I think men and what's weird, too about this whole protector role is What are you protecting from? Like, are you

Brian Mckinley: There's nothing to protect essentially, either. It's it's weird because like, if you don't live, that's, I will try not to tangent but I was just watching a thing where like where all the crime happens in the United States and legitimately it is within like, 90% of the crime happens within 10 Super dense population centers throughout the country. And it's disproportionately. Displayed of like, Oh there's one, you know, one in every 10 guys murder or something like that or It's that's definitely wrong. Just saying it but like,…

Garrett Soames: Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: it comes down to like yeah, that number comes from these places that are ultra violent. The fact of the matter is like unless you live in one of those places

Brian Mckinley: There is no violence in your life. I, you know, we live in Washington State, you and I the most violent thing that happens here is like the fires in the summer. There's nothing to protect. There's no strife here.

Garrett Soames:  Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Like there's no. Like there isn't it? What are you protecting?

Garrett Soames: Right. I mean, yeah again so that that's where this toxic masculinity is coming from and like um my wife ended up going down this rabbit hole watching all these like Andrew Tate videos and stuff because her friend, who, who was a guy,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: he had a, he, let's just say, he had a terrible divorce and he basically now hates women like Hates…

Brian Mckinley: Okay.

Garrett Soames: who is core because of how bad, this this breakup was. And then he started watching all these toxic masculinity videos and now they're like his heroes and he basically thinks women should never work and and what's funny is His wife was a physician and made, you know, two to three times as much as he did. So he now believes that women should not work, despite the fact that his wife was overly successful, very good physician, right? And so it's like so you would have married.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: This doctor who was spent all this time in med school and you would have forced her to know not work. He wanted to stay at home, you know, pregnant in the kitchen.

Brian Mckinley:  That's kind of like a form of control, right?

Garrett Soames: Right. And so it's this weird form of control because, again, to be again, to break it down, The masculinity is often about control, right? It's like, we need to control our castle. We need to control our environment and men have lost that because again, they're losing. You know, they've lost the provider role.

Brian Mckinley:  Their roles.

Garrett Soames: And, and if they've lost the, the Protector role, because we don't need to protect, and in them,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, and like I do, like I do boxing is fitness just for fitness. I like the box.

Brian Mckinley: Yeah. I like I like my tie.

Garrett Soames: Like, you know, I we put on the whole thing I wear here.

Brian Mckinley: I like to do a little bit of jujitsu with my friend every couple weeks. It's it's not…

Garrett Soames:  Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: because I think I'm gonna have to use it but it's just because I want to know it it's like any other kind of sport you know.

Garrett Soames: Right. And I like knowing I can fight but, you know, and I but I need to release a masculine energy, right? So that's…

Brian Mckinley: Right. Right.

Garrett Soames: why it used to do it and…

Brian Mckinley: It helps,…

Brian Mckinley: it helps with that too. I would say working out also helps a fair bit and you know, Audit is morphia being caused by like all these society like pressures. And working out is like it is a way to kind of help you but you're never really gonna obtain what you see on the big screen without and I'm certain amount of steroids or…

Garrett Soames: Yeah. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Right. Right.

Brian Mckinley: like personal trainers. And significant amounts of money. You know TRT is definitely going to help you with body dysmorphia because most likely a lot of your problems are caused by being fat. Which is just a factual statement for people living in the United States. You are very likely to be fat at some point in your life TRT do it.

Garrett Soames:  Well, that's that. You have a 75% chance of being fat that's literally Yeah.

Brian Mckinley:  There you go, specifically very high chance of being fat and if your body does morphia is based on external stressors and symptoms, rather than like a mental health disorder and where it becomes one because of that, you know, being on TRT, does help with that. But like a big part of it is the whole Is the pressure of society?

Garrett Soames: Oh, well, you know, you bring up, you know, pressure and how like people are feeling this. This need to get ahead and is they actually did a recent study on steroid use in high schoolers, right? So,…

Brian Mckinley:  Okay.

Garrett Soames: so it, um, in the past, like, in the, when they first did, the study was in the 90s on average, one in 64, male high schoolers. Just on average used has tried or used steroids one in 60,…

Brian Mckinley: Okay. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: okay? Then in

Brian Mckinley: You think about your graduating class of thousands that's not rare?

Garrett Soames:  Yeah, yeah that's a huge amount but is still enough, you know? And and then in the 2000s it almost doubled. So it's about one in about 30 now. Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Really. I wouldn't have thought that I would have thought it went down with all the regulations and…

Garrett Soames: No, it went up.

Brian Mckinley: that kind of like

Garrett Soames: So there are more and now currently today. One twelve percent of male high schoolers have used steroids 12% of male high schoolers in the United States of America have used or experimented with steroids 12% more than 10.

Brian Mckinley: you know, I mean, To be fair to be fair. There's a lot of that pressure but also men in General's testosterone is going down. So like To reach higher standards than…

Garrett Soames: Right.

Brian Mckinley: what they were supposed to have reached before these new higher levels of standard like that you need to breach while still having lower levels. I don't think it's that surprising That so many people are just steroid use.

Garrett Soames: No. No. I mean, again, I've been doing medicine for a while and you know, normally you wouldn't test it a high schooler for low testosterone. Why would you they're young? You'd think this is the prime of their life.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: But guess what? There are high schools with hypogonadism,…

Brian Mckinley:  Happen. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, I mean when you've got six year olds who now officially like have obesity and they basically start at six with obesity and then by the time they make it till they're 18, they've had 12 years of being morbidly obese. You can imagine.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Yes. It's very likely that these kids have hypotheism

Brian Mckinley: And and that's the trouble too because like that for me that was the age of which, what I was, I was really overweight too and…

Garrett Soames: Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: that the trouble with that is like that impacts you while you're growing. You know, that's when you're growing, that's when you actually need your levels higher to get like the body you want later in life. So like, you know, maybe it's not that wild, but it's still just kind of crazy. That there's so much pressure…

Garrett Soames:  Yeah, thank you.

Brian Mckinley: if there wasn't a pressure, no one would be doing it, right?

Garrett Soames: Right, right. No, that's like that. And that's kind of the point of what I brought it up is if It, you know, sure there are kids more kids are getting, you know, medical issues and hypogonadism. But I think the reason that that number has exponentially gone up is because more of the social pressures is now…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

Garrett Soames: because every good movie that's out, there is a Marvel movie with Thor and Captain America and guys with six packs, and they just amazingly fit and good looking. There and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: again even the James Bond, like we brought up before is now six pack fit with like yoked arms and…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah, that's the standard.

Garrett Soames: does you know he's not here's prosper anymore,…

Garrett Soames: right? That's that.

Brian Mckinley: No, no.

Garrett Soames: Is the standard. So now one in 10 more than one in ten male. You know, high schoolers are now using steroids in an attempt to reach that new standard. And so again, I think again we're really this whole body dysmorphia for men has changed significantly and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. For a lottery.

Garrett Soames: and in fact, Yeah, there's this new term called bigorexia. And it's it's this. Yeah. It's it's just guys who feel like, they're too small. I'm too skinny. I'm too small. I need to get bigger. I need to get bigger. I need to get bigger, right? So they use more and more steroids or they use you…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: and I'll admit I had bigger Xia because I was I was the opposite. Brian. I I was extremely skinny like I was on the wrestling team so I know exactly how much I would. I was in in sophomore year.

Brian Mckinley:  Know. Okay.

Garrett Soames: You know, I was almost six feet tall at that point. I was 98 pounds. So you know like yeah I was super I was rich.

Brian Mckinley: Oh damn.

Garrett Soames: You could receive my ribs. You know. Like I was skinny right? And so I did I ate so much I was eating like four or…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: five thousand calories a day just to desperately try to get bigger and you know and even when you know puberty started hit and I was getting bigger and I was doing better and whatever. I was still I could never be more. I could never be muscular enough. I could never be big.

Brian Mckinley: Yeah, not…

Brian Mckinley: what you wanted.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, and…

Garrett Soames: again that I probably went through all of my 20s and even into some of my 30s with that, that type of body work it.

Brian Mckinley:  That mindset. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, I I couldn't be more muscular and then You know, I actually reached this point where I was like 245 pounds, it's just yoked and enormously big.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Um, and I was in college, but all this eating to try to, you know, maintain all that I can't. I got a fever and I started taking some, Yeah, I had my, my wisdom teeth removed. I got a fever, I took a bunch of ibuprofen and that on top of all, I was trying to eat to, you know, get bigger. I basically burned a hole like straight through my stomach and, like, seriously and…

Brian Mckinley: oh,

Garrett Soames: ultimately, I nearly died. Actually, my I got so anemic I was bleeding into in internally bleeding.

Brian Mckinley:  s***.

Garrett Soames: I I lost in like in like a month, I lost like 55 pounds of, you know. And yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Muscle. That's correct.

Garrett Soames: It was almost because I was all muscle. Then so and,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, it was it took essentially Nearly dying for me to realize.

Brian Mckinley: You just you couldn't really fight the pressures and…

Garrett Soames: This is not a healthy thing. You know, and

Brian Mckinley: it's like it's not until your body starts to give out that. You like you hit the limit and the breaking point and you hit the realization point of like That s*** is unreal. How do people do that? And not everyone ever gets to hit that point and all I do is they chase a dream that doesn't exist their whole life and just sits with them. So, Like Yeah, I mean body dysmorphia is a real thing. I think it's a bigger thing than ever and there's like two things that men can do, which is like to get collectively. We need to, we need to have that body of positivity movement and we need to start like It's hard because of that, you know, everyone's hyper-masculine. Now, to kind of make up for things and it's hard to kind of want to support another guy, but like, we really need that

Brian Mckinley:  Positivity movement that women have started to get and you know beyond that. We don't want to let that toxic masculinity. Stop us from seeking. You know, hypergonadal testosterone related care, because like, I don't need anything else, I will get, probably do you live in America and you've been fat? For 16 17 years, you probably need testosterone. You're probably low. And so like, I don't know, you need to, we need that positive vibes and we need like To accept that maybe our testosterone levels are low and we should probably get them checked.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. So I again I think ultimately you know, we talked about mental health before and stuff. Ultimately I think the best thing you do for your mental health is to feel good with…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah. For sure.

Garrett Soames: who you, right? And well. And that takes a lot of self-reflection and whatever, but you also have to feel good physically. So if you are suffering from symptoms of going out ism, you're never gonna be there. You're never gonna get there because no matter how positive you feel about yourself, you have to actually feel good too, right? So yeah,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah, you do you have to be able to be alive?

Garrett Soames: Right. and so again, I think if you, if you can treat, you know, yourself and you feel better on something like TRT, then you're you're only going to,…

Brian Mckinley:  Mm-hmm.

Garrett Soames: you know, benefit as far as how you feel about how you look and, and again, about how you how comfortable you are in your own skin, So, you know, I don't know. Ultimately, again I think there's there's just a lot of societal pressures these days, you know, Instagram filters and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: all this crap, you know, and and it's not realistic. And in reality, I actually feel sorry for people, you know, who are younger because they're growing up with social media and they don't know any different and Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Really, it's terrible. Honestly. I mean I'm pressure enough by it and I'm an adult at all. Like, Yeah,…

Garrett Soames:  Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: I don't know. It's something that needs to change. I think for men or we just need to have some type of movement like that sometime soon where like, We want to accept men, not only for if they're funny. or if they're rich but also if they're just a person who's fat And not feel pressured to do a. Lot of crazy things like Yeah you want to get healthy for helping us a sake but like Don't give body this more feel over it because the goal is set astronomically far from what's possible. You know, I think that's the goal adjustment, is what we need there. But yeah,…

Garrett Soames: Right.

Brian Mckinley: thank you guys for joining us. Today, we're gonna wrap up And we'll catch you guys next time. Thanks for. Thanks for watching.

Garrett Soames:  All right. See you next time.