In this podcast excerpt, we discuss the concept of toxic masculinity. We explore the definition of toxic masculinity, its origins, and its consequences. We also discuss whether toxic masculinity is a problem or a symptom.

Transcript

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Brian Mckinley: you know, toxic masculinity doesn't help either. I, I was working out this morning with my wife, and we're watching video and it was something stupid, like, Yeah. You think your girls safe? Look at all my cars. Secret is she's not safe at all. If I was here, I'd pull her and I'm like, What the hell is this? And it's like, like you're rich off of being an ass and like it's like, Why is this a thing? And Why is that how people think? Like, you got to be buff as hell or rich? That's it. Those are your two options.

Garrett Soames: Yeah. You know, it's interesting because they've done, you know, a lot of studies on what women like desire and find attractive, right? So they Well,…

Brian Mckinley: surprise, it's not that

Garrett Soames: no, what? Yeah, what's interesting is they they pulled a bunch of Romance novels, right? And they.

Brian Mckinley:  okay.

Garrett Soames: So the basically what are the professions of these guys in this romance novels, right? So basically, they were surgeon Lawyer One was like Yeah like entrepreneurial billionaire. You know and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: then yeah the other was like Oh yes athlete so like this so those are like the most common things and then you know it's like okay so you to be a top level athlete, you know. And NFL you think you're you you're literally like zero point zero five percent of the population to be a high end surgeon.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Again that's again like zero point two five percent of the population to be a higher,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, again, maybe 1% of the population or less, you know. And so ultimately it's like That it?

Brian Mckinley:  There's a lot of pressure there.

Garrett Soames: Yeah, there's a lot of pressure on men. Like, okay, what? I All all men you know gay or straight we're looking for a partner right? And so you know the desire I think it the same may be true for gay men,…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: you know, looking for the same, you know, success and and whatnot. But I think we're all looking for that but in men What's what, what is? I think the biggest problem that that men are struggling with now, right? Is The the role for men. And I think this is where all this toxic masculinity is coming from the role of men in masculinity is too twofold,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

Garrett Soames: right? And through all of history, it has been be a protector.

Garrett Soames: And be a provider. Right. Bring bring home the bacon.

Brian Mckinley:  Right. Which doesn't really happen as much in our general society anymore.

Garrett Soames: Right? So

Garrett Soames: That doesn't happen anymore. That we live in a society where we now have to have dual incomes, your spouse. Your partner needs to also work, if you want to to even not even get ahead just to break,…

Brian Mckinley: Yeah.

00:35:00

Garrett Soames: even your spouse, and you both need to work full-time jobs. So

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. And to like immediate income upper middle class life that has to be the case unless you were already born with money.

Garrett Soames: Yes. So unless you were born rich, your wife also will have to work. I am sorry. That is how it is and how it will likely be for the rest of time. Because this is the way the economy is going. So, you now, as a male are no longer the provider, You're now a partner and,…

Brian Mckinley:  Right.

Garrett Soames: you know, you're contribute, which is good, that's the way it should be, but you are no longer the provider.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: So that provider was gone. That's out. So leaves you for your masking identity with Protector.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah. Protector.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Right. So The Protector again. Masculine big muscular. I can fight, I can protect you.

Brian Mckinley:  Aggressive. Yeah.

Garrett Soames: Aggressive. yeah, and so, that's where I think all this weird toxic masculinity is coming from, it's like, you know, and and you hear it from

Brian Mckinley: I feel a little invalidated in one of the two roles that you're supposed to be in, so you got to kind of overcompensate in the other one.

Garrett Soames: Yeah. Yeah it's totally overcompensation and yeah and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: so like you know, I I make decent money but I my wife still works because again we want to get ahead like we have like that's just the way it is right? And and…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: So, I think men and what's weird, too about this whole protector role is What are you protecting from? Like, are you

Brian Mckinley: There's nothing to protect essentially, either. It's it's weird because like, if you don't live, that's, I will try not to tangent but I was just watching a thing where like where all the crime happens in the United States and legitimately it is within like, 90% of the crime happens within 10 Super dense population centers throughout the country. And it's disproportionately. Displayed of like, Oh there's one, you know, one in every 10 guys murder or something like that or It's that's definitely wrong. Just saying it but like,…

Garrett Soames: Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: it comes down to like yeah, that number comes from these places that are ultra violent. The fact of the matter is like unless you live in one of those places

Brian Mckinley: There is no violence in your life. I, you know, we live in Washington State, you and I the most violent thing that happens here is like the fires in the summer. There's nothing to protect. There's no strife here.

Garrett Soames:  Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: Like there's no. Like there isn't it? What are you protecting?

Garrett Soames: Right. I mean, yeah again so that that's where this toxic masculinity is coming from and like um my wife ended up going down this rabbit hole watching all these like Andrew Tate videos and stuff because her friend, who, who was a guy,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: he had a, he, let's just say, he had a terrible divorce and he basically now hates women like Hates…

Brian Mckinley: Okay.

Garrett Soames: who is core because of how bad, this this breakup was. And then he started watching all these toxic masculinity videos and now they're like his heroes and he basically thinks women should never work and and what's funny is His wife was a physician and made, you know, two to three times as much as he did. So he now believes that women should not work, despite the fact that his wife was overly successful, very good physician, right? And so it's like so you would have married.

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: This doctor who was spent all this time in med school and you would have forced her to know not work. He wanted to stay at home, you know, pregnant in the kitchen.

Brian Mckinley:  That's kind of like a form of control, right?

Garrett Soames: Right. And so it's this weird form of control because, again, to be again, to break it down, The masculinity is often about control, right? It's like, we need to control our castle. We need to control our environment and men have lost that because again, they're losing. You know, they've lost the provider role.

Brian Mckinley:  Their roles.

Garrett Soames: And, and if they've lost the, the Protector role, because we don't need to protect, and in them,…

Brian Mckinley:  Yeah.

Garrett Soames: you know, and like I do, like I do boxing is fitness just for fitness. I like the box.

Brian Mckinley: Yeah. I like I like my tie.

Garrett Soames: Like, you know, I we put on the whole thing I wear here.

Brian Mckinley: I like to do a little bit of jujitsu with my friend every couple weeks. It's it's not…

Garrett Soames:  Yeah.

Brian Mckinley: because I think I'm gonna have to use it but it's just because I want to know it it's like any other kind of sport you know.

Garrett Soames: Right. And I like knowing I can fight but, you know, and I but I need to release a masculine energy, right? So that's…

Brian Mckinley: Right. Right.

Garrett Soames: why it used to do it and…

Brian Mckinley: It helps,…

Brian Mckinley: it helps with that too. I would say working out also helps a fair bit and you know, Audit is morphia being caused by like all these society like pressures. And working out is like it is a way to kind of help you but you're never really gonna obtain what you see on the big screen without and I'm certain amount of steroids or…

Garrett Soames: Yeah. Yeah.